the forgotten

[BeSt583]

lore das heist Divsion deutsch klingt net uber genug :wink:

[Schnurrbart]

habs gerade angesehen, schaut ja schrecklich aus...
Bin für L.C. oder so.

Da haben diese Jungs ( Day of Defeat/Battlefield Clan) anscheinend weniger Probleme.
http://www.legion-condor.net

[Vasquez]

So. Nachdem ich dem ersten GM nachweisen konnte, dass er unseren Clannamen aus falschen Beweggründen geändert hatte (erste begründung war: LG=Radikale Gruppe im dritten Rweich) lol

hat er wohl seinen Chef zur Hilfe geholt und dieser schrieb:

Greetings,

Originally Legion Condor was formed in response to general Francisco Franco's ask. During the Spanish civil war in this unit server over 20000 German soldiers, getting experience they used in WW II.
At the time the Legion Condor was formed, Germany was ruled by Adolf Hitler and the NSDAP. Although Hitler officially supported policy of non interference, he justified existence of Legion Condor as war against Bolshevism.

Considering the above it's unlikely to consider original Legion Condor as not linked to Nazism.


I'm not sure how GM Nindir explained this situation to you, but the reasons behind rename are highly negative historical background of the Legion Condor unit and it's strong connections to ideologies currently considered in many countries as illegal and/or highly abusive (racism, nazism). As such, the decision remains valid.

Regards,
Szymon - PotBS Customer Support Team

Meine Antwort:

Hello Szymon,

I think this goes to far here. This game doesnt cover ww2 area and If you will nearly every german name from any principalities or famous leaders from the 17th century age couldnt be used since they were more or less ALL also used for german units or battleships or whatsoever in worldwar2.
We dont have "hermanns" or "adolfs" in our society. All spanish or british nicknames. We are even not all from germany. And there is a german airline in germany with the name.
We had this society name almost since launch of PotBs. We dont get the point of beeing renamed all of the sudden only cause someone complained who is even not playing on the same server as we do.
We had no problems, issues or anything else with the playerbase on roberts.

[Vasquez]

Jetzt rennen die aber die GMs.

Deren Antwort:

Hello,

Thanks for your response.
We understand that there may have been no evil intent on your part, and this is why we decided to give you the option to rename your society.

We agree on the fact that there was no "Legion Condor" in the 18th century Caribbean, and that it is impossible for any character of that ear to know what it will be in the 20th century. However, this game is played by people from the 21st century, and they may have relatives involved in events that occurred in Spain at that time.
Although your society isn't actively promoting the actions or the Legion Condor, the exact name match with the actual Legion Condor and its Third Reich origins are deemed sufficient to justify a society rename.

Best regards,
Sam - PotBS Customer Support Manager

Mein Konter:

Hello Sam,

As I said this matching goes way to far. Seriously, you have Hohenzollern beeing part of your spanish NO Quest series. Werent they not also in any way involved in the nazi party? Yes.

There are also "German Navy" societies around. Didnt the german navy not sunk civilians during WW1 and WW2?

Same goes for "Royal Navy". Didnt the Royal Navy not use force and stuff to expand the british empire in the 16th to 19th century? Couldnt the people of India and countless other countries not felt offended?

Whats with "Los conquistatores"? They raped and killed "all" native peoples in south america.

Comparing a spanish society name in a pirate game with the Third Reich after almost 2 months of playing while spanish players recommend our guild in the forums for beeing nice guys and rating our society flag as excellent is seriously not understandable.

[Vasquez]

Hello,

Thanks for your comments. Allow me to take the examples you give one by one.

The Hohenzollern is a dynasty several centuries old. They have lost their power at the end of the Great War. There's no obvious link with the Nazi party here, although some members of that family had interests in the Nazi party. That is only a part of what this family did. Similarly, we don't block the first name "Benito" because, although there was a dictator called Benito Mussolini, Benito is much more than just Mussolini's first name.

The "German Navy" term doesn't refer to WW1 or WW2. Terms like "Reichsmarine" or "Kriegsmarine", both names of the German Navy during WW2 specifically, may be an issue, but that would require internal discussion. We would probably come to the same conclusion as with the Legion Condor though.

The "Royal Navy" itself is 1000 years old and obviously it has fought many people, and used force many times - but that's what you expect from soldiers, after all. But is the Royal Navy held responsible for war crimes? I can't find anything about that.

"Los Conquistadores" is a tricky case. Litteraly, it means "The Conquerors" in Spanish, and just like the Benito example that was given earlier, that's a word Spanish people use every day with no afterthought. They do fit in the context of the 18th century, it makes sense to see them in a game that takes place in that era. And the distant times in which they were active may lead people to have not so harsh feelings about them. But once again that's a tricky case, and it would probably require further internal discussion.

And to address your last point, we don't question your flag, or how well your society is perceived in game, or what your society members do. This is specifically about the name and what it conveys (i.e. a group of Luftwaffe soldiers sent by Nazi Germany to Spain in order to support a government that had favourable views on Nazis), and nothing else.

I understand that changing a name can be damaging for a society, especially after it has earned recognition. Similar names are however possible, such as Condor Army, Condor Navy, Condor Fleet... Along with a roleplay justification for the name change, that may make things easier.

Regards,
Sam - PotBS Customer Support Manager

--->

As you can see its all a matter of your viewing point.
If Hohenzollern is fine although familiy members of them joined the NSDAP and/or cooperated/symphatized with them turns this whole discussion honestly into a farce.

Regarding Royal Navy there is no doubt that they were uncountable times directly involved into war crimes. At least if it just was to run blockades or supply british expeditionary forces in "their colonies" (africa etc.) suppresing and enslaving the natives there.

The fact remains that comparing names within two compeltely different sceneries/circumstances as it is here is far off farfetched.

Instead of stepping on our toes "after ages" and turning our society name all of a sudden over night into a joke/fake name with only a single line of harsh comment via the ingame mail system you should have contacted us before doing this and seek communication.

My societies members fun in gameplay is gone. The dice ist cast. Good Job.

Err one last word.

I read stuff like "we gave you the option to rename your society" or "Along with a roleplay justification for the name change"...?

You gave us nothing. All what we get was a overacted society kill off action over night what made us look ingame like a bunch of silly nags.

Fortunately we can make it equal easy and just hit one button.

Adios

[OGGurke]

Hmm, dann müssen euch mehrere gemeldet haben, wegen einem Ticket rühren sie sich normalerweise nicht.

Wie wärs mit
cuerpo de voluntarios alemanes,
ist im romanischen blöd, muß man soviel umschreiben, oder
flota azul

Und Nachtrag das "La división el aleman" würde übersetzt "die Division der Deutsche" heissen. Müßte das el weglassen, dann ist es "deutsche Division"

PS: oder wie damals die KG7, "tormenta de fuego".

[Vasquez]

Habe unsubscribed. Bin nen alter Sack und kann mich schlecht anpassen. Nach 2 Monaten nenne ich mich nimmer um

[jentzsch]

hehe

naja ich muss ehrlich sagen ich überlege auch die ganze zeit, aber mir fehlt die Alternative irgendwie :roll:

[Sniper09]

Wat soll denn das jetzt?Ihr werdet den Heulern ja wohl nit die Befriedigung geben es geschafft zu haben..........Heissen wir halt "La división aleman" wo issen das Problem..................
Wird doch nen Spass werden wenn die Weltverbesserer auf Roberts rüberkommen,da auf Bonnet eh nix los ist...........

Und sich jetzt so bockig anstellen kann ich irgendwie nit nachvollziehen,ist ja der gleiche Kindergarten wie im Heulerforum dann :roll:

[jentzsch]

habe ja net gesagt das ich aufhöre 8)