Uedel
02.01.2006, 08:57
Bombing slows down how fast you can complete the points alloted to the length of your RDP cycle based on what you RDP'd. The more expensive something is, the more it increases the length of that cycle. Numbers also make a contribution to that length of cycle.
The same formula is used for all 3 countries. Varients RDP faster (at same point value) than Prototypes do, but none of these items has the same point value other than by accident of their CVC value being the same, which is actually pretty rare, I thing maybe 2 or 3 things out of the hundred plus in game might have fallen onto the same value point.
The Germans would have had their cycle completed first of all 3 countries but the Allies ramped up their bombing campaign at almost the exact same time as the Germans stopped theirs, and are running RDP at 27% higher pace currently, 100% to 73%.
Of course, factory health states fluctuate many times a day, so I can only speak in a generalized average.
The next version of RDP we release into the game will see all cycles fixed in length and all items in a tier RDP's together, all the high Command will do is balance their production to fit inside their budgets, a not undemanding trick in itself. I hope this new version can make the next campaign, because then all of this being talked about now will be completely different, and less "complainable" while ensuring everything makes it into a campaign more often and for longer, depending on the length of the individual campaign of course.
I would guess campaigns are going to be a longer average duration in the future than they are now, which only makes all of this better again on top of the changes planned to RDP.
Overall, once the tiers start to come in, the Axis have an average advantage in tank ability based on gun penetration, optics, and until the Churchills were modeled, armour. The 2 Churchills are effectively armoured, but the German tank matche-ups to them far exceed their killing ability, and at long range eclipse them totally, to the extent that the British guns can't penetrate at all.
The Churchill VII is of course the exception here too, but is the slowest tank in the game (we're talking about maybe losing out to the Char.B1.bis, I haven't raced them yet B) and it has the worst gun of all down to tier 1 where it finally has an advantage, and it's a tier 3 tank.
The game attempts to give the best equipment in performance and killing ability (firepower plus armour as far as tanks are concerned, speed also matters but not so much) a didadvanatge in maximum potential numbers at introduction, and how long it takes to get them. It's pretty complex in that what you see this cycle of campaign 26 is not the only outcome, there are hundreds of possibilities. We have seen the Germans get their tier 1 and 2 before everyone else, so this campaign is just a different result than that campaign saw.
Tier 3 is going to be very expensive for both the British and the Germans, only the French get a break and generally they are held back not by the cost/length of cycle, but by being bombed a lot that lengthens that cycle instead. If you average all the cycle times for all the French gear (without bombing) they have the longest averages of all because they have fewer Varients and more Prototypes.
Obviously, bombing changes everything. In the next RDP, we're guessing it will affect supply and not how long it takes to introduce stuff like it does now. The details are still in planning/design, but when they are done, we'll tell you how it works in more detail.
und !
Post by Gille
This illustrates perfectly what is wrong and unrealistic about the prototype/variant rules. Under the current rules its easier to mass produce a prototype in large numbers than a variant because with a prototype you simply cash in all your crappy tier 0 tanks for lots of points to buy prototypes, while with variants you have to keep (or even increase) your crappy tier 0 tanks first because they are the predecessors to your better variant.
So not only do you not get the points bonus from deleting tier 0 rubbish from your spawn list, you have to maintain or increase the numbers of those crappy tanks!
This leads to the wildly unrealistic situation where its easier for side A to RDP 6 of a brand new tank from scratch than side B to produce 6 of a variant tank which has 3 predecessors already in production.
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#39 Report Bad Post
Old Today, 06:45 AM
DOC DOC is offline
CORNERED RAT
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 8,373
Default Re: Whoa, thats alot of churchills per spawn
We agree Gille, that's why I've been changing it to something completely different and will have it finished soon. It DID work better previously than it does now with a long tier 3 in front of everyone and additional things in tier 1 and 2, or the Axis would not have won most of the campaigns.
If all campaigns lasted 12 weeks it would probably still work as well as it used to (swing one way and back, but even out in the end) but the average length of campaigns halved in the meantime while all the additional stuff was being placed into the RDP system, meaning the additional new tanks, fighters, ATG's.
Well it's all going to chnage and hopefully a happier time for all will result, that's why it's changing, this current stystem is not good enough to satisfy our desires or the games needs anymore.
Last edited by DOC : Today at 06:49 AM.
The same formula is used for all 3 countries. Varients RDP faster (at same point value) than Prototypes do, but none of these items has the same point value other than by accident of their CVC value being the same, which is actually pretty rare, I thing maybe 2 or 3 things out of the hundred plus in game might have fallen onto the same value point.
The Germans would have had their cycle completed first of all 3 countries but the Allies ramped up their bombing campaign at almost the exact same time as the Germans stopped theirs, and are running RDP at 27% higher pace currently, 100% to 73%.
Of course, factory health states fluctuate many times a day, so I can only speak in a generalized average.
The next version of RDP we release into the game will see all cycles fixed in length and all items in a tier RDP's together, all the high Command will do is balance their production to fit inside their budgets, a not undemanding trick in itself. I hope this new version can make the next campaign, because then all of this being talked about now will be completely different, and less "complainable" while ensuring everything makes it into a campaign more often and for longer, depending on the length of the individual campaign of course.
I would guess campaigns are going to be a longer average duration in the future than they are now, which only makes all of this better again on top of the changes planned to RDP.
Overall, once the tiers start to come in, the Axis have an average advantage in tank ability based on gun penetration, optics, and until the Churchills were modeled, armour. The 2 Churchills are effectively armoured, but the German tank matche-ups to them far exceed their killing ability, and at long range eclipse them totally, to the extent that the British guns can't penetrate at all.
The Churchill VII is of course the exception here too, but is the slowest tank in the game (we're talking about maybe losing out to the Char.B1.bis, I haven't raced them yet B) and it has the worst gun of all down to tier 1 where it finally has an advantage, and it's a tier 3 tank.
The game attempts to give the best equipment in performance and killing ability (firepower plus armour as far as tanks are concerned, speed also matters but not so much) a didadvanatge in maximum potential numbers at introduction, and how long it takes to get them. It's pretty complex in that what you see this cycle of campaign 26 is not the only outcome, there are hundreds of possibilities. We have seen the Germans get their tier 1 and 2 before everyone else, so this campaign is just a different result than that campaign saw.
Tier 3 is going to be very expensive for both the British and the Germans, only the French get a break and generally they are held back not by the cost/length of cycle, but by being bombed a lot that lengthens that cycle instead. If you average all the cycle times for all the French gear (without bombing) they have the longest averages of all because they have fewer Varients and more Prototypes.
Obviously, bombing changes everything. In the next RDP, we're guessing it will affect supply and not how long it takes to introduce stuff like it does now. The details are still in planning/design, but when they are done, we'll tell you how it works in more detail.
und !
Post by Gille
This illustrates perfectly what is wrong and unrealistic about the prototype/variant rules. Under the current rules its easier to mass produce a prototype in large numbers than a variant because with a prototype you simply cash in all your crappy tier 0 tanks for lots of points to buy prototypes, while with variants you have to keep (or even increase) your crappy tier 0 tanks first because they are the predecessors to your better variant.
So not only do you not get the points bonus from deleting tier 0 rubbish from your spawn list, you have to maintain or increase the numbers of those crappy tanks!
This leads to the wildly unrealistic situation where its easier for side A to RDP 6 of a brand new tank from scratch than side B to produce 6 of a variant tank which has 3 predecessors already in production.
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gille
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#39 Report Bad Post
Old Today, 06:45 AM
DOC DOC is offline
CORNERED RAT
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 8,373
Default Re: Whoa, thats alot of churchills per spawn
We agree Gille, that's why I've been changing it to something completely different and will have it finished soon. It DID work better previously than it does now with a long tier 3 in front of everyone and additional things in tier 1 and 2, or the Axis would not have won most of the campaigns.
If all campaigns lasted 12 weeks it would probably still work as well as it used to (swing one way and back, but even out in the end) but the average length of campaigns halved in the meantime while all the additional stuff was being placed into the RDP system, meaning the additional new tanks, fighters, ATG's.
Well it's all going to chnage and hopefully a happier time for all will result, that's why it's changing, this current stystem is not good enough to satisfy our desires or the games needs anymore.
Last edited by DOC : Today at 06:49 AM.